GUS Daily Digest Tue, 25 Jan 94 0:07 Volume 10: Issue 25 Today's Topics: 16-bit DMA 16 bit DMA problems and feedback from DD V3 #45 DOS4GW/QEMM Stealth DOS4GW and QEMM's Stealth Dos4gw Conflict. Faulty DMA controllers file uploads Fixing up Megaem patches to get decent SFX GUS Daily Digest V10 #23 GUS Daily Digest V10 #24 GUS DRAM problems Gus forsale MIDI functionality with GUS New 32 bit drivers Playmidi vs. Media-Player Red Storm Rising (Microprose) subscribe Summary: OPTi 495 TFX Ultrasound and Strike Commander UTL and S3M Standard Info: - Meta-info about the GUS can be found at the end of the Digest. - Before you ask a question, please READ THE FAQ. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 10:31:22 -0500 (EST) From: Phat H Tran Subject: 16-bit DMA > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 21:02:08 -0400 (EDT) > From: Roger Frederi Clark > Subject: Chipsets yet again... > > Yesterday I tried once again. In SETGUS, I change DMA from 3 to 5,6,or 7, > go to test, and "On board parity error". I know about the problem with > the Opti chipsets, but my chips advertise UMC on them. Specifically, part > numbers UM82C481AF, UM82C482AF, and UM82C206AF. On a post a couple of UMC is the other flaky chipset. This should have been in the FAQ. > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 01:09:58 -0500 (EST) > From: "K.S. Holly" > Subject: DMA problems > > I have a SB 2.0 in my machine ( 220, IRQ 7, DMA 1), a GUS (240, DMA 3, IRQ > 5 & 7) and a tape controller (300-301, IRQ 2, DMA 2) On it's own I could > get the GUS to work fine with DMA 5 or 7. Even with the SB 2.0 I could get > it to work with DMA 7 but as soon as I put the tape controller back in I > couldn't get the GUS to work with anything other than DMA 3. I was able to > get the GUS to work on DMA 5 WITH the controller but WITHOUT the SB 2.0! I > tried all kinds of different irq's on the controller and tried DMA 3 > instead of 2 but to no avail. You probably have a poorly-designed motherboard that can't handle too much loading on the I/O bus. > What exactly are the advantages of using 16 bit DMA instead of 8 anyway? Nothing to lose sleep over. Using a 16-bit DMA channel, you _might_ notice a decrease in the time it takes patches to load. Phat. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:35:45 -0600 From: Don Eller Subject: 16 bit DMA problems and feedback from DD V3 #45 I may be asking a stupid question, but would it be possible that a mechanism could be setup so that a search string could be mailed in a subject to gus-general-search and a reply could come back via email with all digests that had a string (anywhere in the body, not just the subject list) that matched the search string in the request. I think that if this existed and was mentioned at the end of each digest, people would quit repeating the same questions requiring reposting of information like I'm about to do. I'm finding that I'm not able to keep all old digest's that I find interesting due to space problems, and it seems silly for everyone to keep copies anyway, since there is a central depository. I'm assuming for simplicity sake that there could be one search-request address that would search all digests, gus-general gus-sdk gus-music etc. I suppose if it were easy to make it an option, mailing all digests that match might be useful as well. I think it would work fine for most people if the reply just mentioned the correct way for using the ftp-mail request for past digests, although it would be nice to just request a second email of old digests, without uuencoding etc. This is an excerpt from Ultrasound Daily Digest Volume 3: Issue 45 from Sat May 15. The list was compiled and may still be maintained by Marc Rouleau. Date: Fri, 14 May 1993 16:39:24 EDT From: Marc Rouleau Subject: List of working motherboards Message-ID: <9305142259.AA22717@orca.es.com> I know I'm posting this thing too often lately. I'm sorry. This is the last one for a while. -- Marc Rouleau Some motherboards do not support DMA well and as a result do not work well with the Gravis Ultrasound sound card. What follows is a list of answers to the following three questions: 1. Describe your motherboard. 2. Can you use 16-bit DMA? 3. Any other problems? Hopefully this list will help us all to purchase PC's and motherboards which support DMA. I am willing to continue serving as a clearinghouse for this information, so please let me know about your motherboard. 1. AIR. 486UL VESA localbus motherboard (w/ 486DX2-66), UMC 82C480 AT chipset with 3 VESA localbus slots 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No problems at all. 1. AIR 486UV with 486DX-33, AMIBIOS, UMC 82C480 AT chipset with UMB82C482AF/UMB82C206L/UMB82C481A, 1 proprietary localbus slot 2. No, 16-bit DMA does not work. 3. Clicking noises w/ 1M GUS RAM, low MIDI in Windows w/ high WAV volume. 1. 486DX-50 VLB, UMC 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No reported problems 1. 486 (DX/SX selectable w/ jumper) SIS 82C401/402 chipset 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No problems. 1. Soyo SY-020P2 486DX/SX 25/33/50 (w/ DX2-66) "Chipset (only 1 chip visible :) 85C460 (manufacturer SiS) Configuration very similar to Mr. Rouleau's sample board except that this board has 2 sockets (each for the DX and the SX), but none of them a ZIF. I don't know if the P24T's will work." 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. "For all I know the problem(s) is caused by my HD controller (Promise DC-4030VL VLbus IDE caching controller) Problems: if I turn on the 32-bit data transfer on the controller I won't be able to use SBOS (it loads but produces no sound) gusmod buzzes (very annoying)" 1. ASUS 486VLB (made by UTRON w/ SIS chipset???????) 2. ? 3. "Works nice for me, no problems with an UltraStor 14F or Gravis Ultrasound, no problems with music, etc (other than the normal SBOS BS). Works fine. I have it running at 33. Not quite as BIOS configurable as I like, but I'm not complaining, either." 1. 486DX-50 VLB, Bioteq 2. Don't know if 16-bit DMA works. 3. Didn't work 1. Mylex MVE486 EISA/VLB, 486DX2-66 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No problems. 1. HP Vectra 486U (used in 486/25U, 33U, 50U, and 66U computers) 2. Yes. 3. None that I know of. 1. 486DX-33 ISA-486SIQ, AMIBIOS, 256K cache, chipset is a single SIQ chip. 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No problems. 1. 486DX-33, OPTi 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. "I have trouble with early versions of SBOS, but that's most likely due to running DR DOS 6.0, not the motherboard." 1. 486DX-33, OPTi ?/?/82C206Q, 1/93 2. No, 16-bit DMA does not work. 3. Windows crashes after doing too much sound-oriented stuff. DOS stuff works fine: sbos, playmidi, gusmod, p669gu0, etc. 1. 486DX-33, OPTi 82C392/82C493/F82C206 2. No, 16-bit DMA does not work. 3. "Windows driver seems to drop instruments now and then. About 1 instrument in 5-10 seconds in faster MIDI songs, like PopCorn." 1. DTK 486DX-33, Symphony, 8/92 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No reported problems 1. 486-20/25/33, ETEQ Micro Cougar II chipset, board by Mitac, 5/92 AMIBIOS, no cache 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No problems -- uses DMA w/ SCSI controller, SBPro, and GUS 1. 486DX-33 Orchid VLB 256K cache, 1/93, AMIBIOS 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No problems. 1. 486DLC (Cyrix), OPTi 391 motherboard, 12/92 (HI-TECH) 2. No, 16-bit DMA does not work. 3. No reported problems 1. 386-40, Bioteq 2. Don't know if 16-bit DMA works. 3. No reported problems 1. 386-40 PC-Chips chipset w/ 82C206 DMA controller 2. No, 16-bit DMA does not work. 3. No problems. 1. 386-40 OPTi & SIS chipset w/ SIS 85C206 DMA controller 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No problems. "I have a PAS16 but recently solved a DMA problem that might affect the GUS as well. Here are answers to your questions. 1. "Morse" 386-40, PC Chips chipset incl. 82C206 2. No. 3. No." 1. 386-25/33/40, OPTi 82C391/82C392/82C206 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No reported problems 1. Micronics 386, 2/91 (Gateway 2000) 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No reported problems 1. "Soyo 386DX-33 (Soyo is the Far Eastern Manufacturer) with an ITT 387 and AMI BIOS. It has a mix of OPTI and CHIPs chipset, including what I think may be the dreaded OPTI DMA-killer chip (It's in another part of the country, so I can't tell you the chip numbers)." 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. "I have had problems with SuperStor and DOS Games. Games start OK and then hang after a period of time, but the music continues." 1. 386-25, DCA chipset?, Packard Bell Legend 300SX 2. Don't know if 16-bit DMA works. 3. "Problems - problems with Windows 3.1 MIDI support. MID file tempos are bad, they drop notes, truncate notes, play wrong notes. Any time I use certain patches (flute, panflute, ocarina) Windows will crash and return EMM386 exception error #06. All MIDI applications (Media Player, Patch Manager, Winjammer) get this error." 1. DTK PEM-2500 (25Mhz 386DX) DTK BIOS 2. No problem w/ 16 bit DMA (I also have 5.7 Mhz Adaptec 1542B SCSI controller in the same system) 3. No problems at all 1. 286-20, C&T NEAT 82C212B/82C206/? 2. Yes, 16-bit DMA works. 3. No reported problems ----------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 14:57:55 -0500 (EST) From: Pete Kilcullen Subject: DOS4GW/QEMM Stealth > > Anyone out there in Gus land understand why I can't play any games > > that involve the use of Dos4GW? I don't know if it is sound card > > conflict , or hardware, cuz if it is other-wise software related , > > I don't get it! Im running Dos 6.2, Qemm 7.3 w/ stealth and > > doublespace. Diamond speedstar 24x 486DX 50! I have never got ten > > Comanche, Syndicate, Mortal KOmbat, plus much more often lately. > > No one see ms to understand whats up, can anyone out there give me > > a hand? Thanks. > > I would immediately start to suspect the stealth option in > QEMM 7.3. I had nothing but problems with Stealth. Take the > stealth out, I think by editing your config.sys by taking I > think the :P off the end of the QEMM statement. My second > suspicion would be Doublespace. Hope this helps. (stuff deleted) > To the person with the DOS4GW problem: I have heard of some problems with the > QEMM Stealth mode and DOS4GW elsewhere, though I cannot verify it... anyone else > can? OK. I use GUS/QEMM 7.03 with Stealth M, And DOS4GW (SimCity 2000) They all work fine together. You have to stop "stealth" from grabbing the part of video BIOS used by SVGA. (This is in the QEMM Manual). Put a "X=b000-b7ff" in the QEMM line to protect SVGA graphics. Then all games using SVGA will run fine. This is not a DOS4GW issue; rather it's a stealth/video issue. DOS4GW is a DPMI program compatible with the DPMI program in QEMM. These two are compatible. Make sure to protect your SVGA region from Stealth and all should work fine. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 07:31:20 -0800 (PST) From: mikebat@netcom.com (Mike Batchelor) Subject: Re: DOS4GW and QEMM's Stealth Not the GUS Server once wrote... $ $ ------------------------------ $ $ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 00:03:58 PST $ From: chrism@huey.nic.bc.ca (Chris Mackay) $ Subject: Re: DOS4GW Conflict $ $ I would immediately start to suspect the stealth option in $ QEMM 7.3. I had nothing but problems with Stealth. Take the $ stealth out, I think by editing your config.sys by taking I $ think the :P off the end of the QEMM statement. My second $ suspicion would be Doublespace. Hope this helps. $ $ ------------------------------ $ $ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 01:46:01 -0500 (EST) $ From: gt7039a@prism.gatech.edu $ Subject: QEMM w/Stealth, Ftp info, and Megaem w/Xwing $ $ To the person with the DOS4GW problem: I have heard of some problems with the $ QEMM Stealth mode and DOS4GW elsewhere, though I cannot verify it... anyone else $ can? I can verify that there is NO general problem with DOS4GW and QEMM's Stealth feature, from either version 6 or version 7, with any version of DOS4GW 1.8 or later. Tech support at Quarterdeck is also fond of DOOM and Shadow Caster and other games. We play NetDOOM with ODI, Novell and TCPIP loaded, full-on Stealth is active on everyone's machines. Those machines that crash with DOOM also crash without QEMM - DOS4GW 1.9 and later does not like certain motherboards (mine at home included). I cannot get DOOM to run unless I toss the config/auto with the F5 key at boot up. But at work, I've played NetDOOM many times on a PS/2 Model 90 and a NCR Microchannel Model 3350, both with ST:M and the network stack, disk cache, etc. all loaded and active (I'm Mr. Microchannel at Qdeck tech support - the other techs all have ISA or EISA bus machines). Currently, you can get QEMM v7, Shadow Caster, and Privateer bundled together in our Christmas Game Pack for (I think) $89.95. Shadow is a DOS4GW game. Privateer uses the JEMM custom extender that Origin developed. We don't select games to bundle with QEMM unless we know they are compatible with all its features (and have tested them to verify this). In fact, both games work great in DESQview, even (Privateer needs a one-byte patch for DV-compatibility, though). I am going to try Shadow Caster in DV today, now that I have 32 bit AIL drivers for it, and the GUS offloads sound overhead from the CPU, so it ought to fly pretty good! :) -- Mike Batchelor | mikebat@netcom.com | This space for rent mikebat@qdeck.com | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:05:53 -0500 (EST) From: Yackity-scmachity Subject: Dos4gw Conflict. Well, firdt of all thanks to all who replied to my msg yesterday! MUCH appreciated. (I was floored to find 7 replies, and a few more refeneced in todays newletter. (Well yesterdays now.) Just wanted to let everyone know I found the problem. DOS4Gw utilizez the same irq interup as my Diamond Card!!! This is what casued the lockups! So if anyone else out there has a diamond and the same problem , try changing your vid caqqrd. Again, thanks all For the replies. (I wish it had been dblspace qemm stealth or whatever. Cheaper than buying a new video card) 8< Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 01:16:32 -0500 (EST) From: "K.S. Holly" Subject: Faulty DMA controllers OK, so by the looks of it, I'm in the same boat as Frederick. I have the UMC chipset, specifically UM82C481B, UM82C482AF, UM82C206F. I guess this is why I have so much trouble with 16 bit DMA. Now that I think about it, I seem to have a lot of trouble with megaem and everything. OPTI put out a fix, anyone heard of UMC doing the same? Any suggestions? Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 14:27:05 EST From: dmcintyr@muselab.ac.runet.edu Subject: file uploads What's a good site to upload a good general-purpose utility to? The utility in question nominally relates to the GUS, but is of wider interest than that. I have spent so much time looking for GUS-related stuff that I have no idea what a good general-purpose site is... I was gonna upload it to wuarchive but they've been having lots of problems... I don't want to upload it to EPAS in light of the recent housecleaning, because it only nominally relates to the GUS... BTW, I got a different sort of ultrasound today, and have verified that I am in fact going to be a Daddy.... Now, if someone can figure out a way to turn the UltraSound into an ultrasound machine we'll be saving hundreds of dollars on medical bills... *grin* --Michael-- << dmcintyr@muselab.ac.runet.edu >> <> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:03:28 +0000 (GMT) From: "Robin W. Glover" Subject: Fixing up Megaem patches to get decent SFX Hi, Not so long ago, someone mentioned on here that it was possible to extract the sounds from a games SoundBlaster driver and convert them into patches for use under Mega-em (or something similar). I wonder if anyone could give me some details of the process, how do you find the sounds inside the SB file (I realise that this may change from game to game, but the general idea would be good), how do you turn them into patches, and how do you work out which number patches to replace (is it anything to do with the SYSEX: messages Mega-em prints up, and if so, can you log them?). Any help much appreciated. Robin +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Robin Glover | Did you really want to talk about | | Department of Meteorology | the weather, or were you just trying | | Reading University, UK | to make polite conversation? | | swrglovr@uk.ac.reading | - Groundhog Day | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:18:33 -0500 From: Dale Luther Bewley Subject: Re: GUS Daily Digest V10 #23 ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 94 08:41:04 PST From: pil!zapo@PacBell.COM (Zapo Zapper) Subject: GUS Daily Digest V10 #24 Regarding: GUS Daily Digest V10 #24 > I just got the new MEI catalog a few days ago & have been thinking about > buying their $187.97 doublespeed CD-ROM drive. According to the AD, it > works with the CD port on the Soundblaster Pro/16/16 ASP/16 ASP MultiCD. > With this in mind, I have two questions: > 1) Do the GUS CD-ROM card and drivers work under OS/2 (obviously the sound > card doesn't work and there's no Windows Multimedia or MMPM/2 support, but > it's MANDATORY that I at least be able to treat it like a big floppy and > can at least copy files off of the ftp-os2 CD-ROM). > 2) Is the GUS CD-ROM port pin compatible with the Soundblaster Pro/16's? The > -do- sell an extra interface, but I'd prefer to make my life easier and > use the GUS interface if possible. This is the Panason CDR 562B drive. As far as I know, there is no daugherboard for the GUS. I use a Matsushita-Kotobuki dedicated interface card. I can tell you the the audio cable is too small to fit on the GUS's cd audio connector. Also, the MKE interface doesn't use an IRQ, just a port ($300) -Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Public Image Limited VBBS (510) 831-3634 [ASV] Guest Account open Home of VUUCP/2 USENet Interface! [VSP] VBBS 6.10 [Primary Dist. Site] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 17:45:45 -0500 (EST) From: Damian Frank Subject: GUS DRAM problems I just got my GUS a week ago, and am quite happy with it. I just today received my eagerly awaited shipment of DRAMS, and as soon as I could, plugged them in, with the usual precautions (grounding etc). Unfortunately, as soon as I could boot and run GUSDRAM, it showed the banks as there ("good good), all of them (even the first!) failed rapidly. After a reboot, the first started working, but the latter three banks always fail. SETGUS DRAM diagnostics start (!?) at 351K and finish with a message that "DRAM FAILED (351K)" or some such. I've tried shuffling DMAs and IRQs, to no avail. The DRAMs I used are Sanyo 256x4 70ns, model number LC324256BP-70. What I'd like to know is whether there's something I'm doing wrong, or if I have to go and wrestle with the memory company and get some replacements. Any help would be greatly appreciated. BTW, in case make means anything, my GUS S/N is K52217. Damian (damianf@wpi.wpi.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 19:04:09 EST From: miker@ace.com (Miker) Subject: Gus forsale Gravis Ultrasound 16 with 1 MB of RAM - 16 bit 44khz playback - Wavetable Synthesis - General MIDI patch set - Soundblaster, Adlib, Roland, General MIDI compatible /w emulation software (included) - Lot's of cool windows & DOS software - $110 firm -Mike miker@ace.com mtassone@aol.com .. No, Taco Bell is NOT the Mexican telephone company! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:26:19 +0000 (GMT) From: toref Subject: MIDI functionality with GUS I am in the process of buying a MIDI-adapter and a Roland PC-200mkII keyboard for my 1Mb GUS. The keyboard has velocity-sensitive keys, pitch-bender/modulation key, reverb and chorus level key plus some other neat features. Will these features be supported by the GUS Windows driver? (I have the new driver installed). I'm especially interested in the chorus/modulation feature --- as they are very useful for creating music with better sound. Thanks for any help, -- Tor Fagri, God of Thunder (e-mail: toref@dcs.gla.ac.uk) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 16:42:48 EST From: Greg Subject: New 32 bit drivers I am shocked that no one has posted a message about the Shadowcaster patch which contains the new Miles 32 bit drivers. I do not own shadowcaster but I downloaded the file Patshad2.zip from the Gravis BBS. The file contains the digital driver, the music driver, a patch loader, and a file that installs them onto Shadowcaster. There is one more program, that modifies a few of the Shadowcaster *.exe files but I am not dure what it does. The drivers seem to accomplish their task without Ultramid or a TSR, but patches must be loaded manually with a patch loader program (it loads 80 in 8 bit mode or 52 in 16 bit mode). Does anyone know if the new drivers will support patch caching, or must the patches always be loaded prior to playing a game. If someone owns Shadowcaster, try the drivers out and see how they perform. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 14:54:15 +0200 (IST) From: Guy Tal Subject: Playmidi vs. Media-Player Hello fellow GUSers, One of you mentioned a while back that he noticed a difference between the sound as played by Playmidi and the one he gets while running Windows. I have encountered a bigger problem - I have downloaded the file beetho27.zip from one of the ftp sites, and while it plays just fine using Playmidi, it won't play at all using Media Player on windows (it does work with Recording Session, however). Any ideas ? Another thing - I tried the text-to-speech program gustalkr.zip and it doesn't work, anyone managed to get speech out of it ? (I have loaded sbos and gustalkr as instructed and it get's stuck when I ask it to say something). One last thing - for the fellow who asked about midi files - there are some great ones on garbo.uwasa.fi (at /mirror/ultrasound/midi/files). My setup: 386DX-40, GUS with 1MB, new Windows drivers installed and working. Thanks. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- __ __ / \ / \ | O \ \/ / O | \______\()/______/ / / || \ \ | O | | O | \__/ \__/ Guy Tal (guytal@ccsg.tau.ac.il) Tel-Aviv University, Israel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 18:44:56 -0700 (MST) From: Gary Scott Kay Subject: Red Storm Rising (Microprose) Was wondering if anyone has been able to get SBOS or Mega-Em to work with Red Storm Rising (by Microprose)... (and if not, what does work?)... I've tried SBOS -O2 (pretty sure it's O2)... anyway... that gets it past the opening screen, but when you try and go into actual game play, it wakes up and says, "Hey! You don't have an Adlib card!"... (BTW: Options are only for adlib, not adlib or soundblaster)... Also, I already looked at the g-list... (it ain't there)... :( Thx in advance... -Gary Kay (gskay@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:54:00 +0000 From: "Mike (M.) Irvin" Subject: subscribe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 22:00:24 -40962758 (EET) From: Janne Korkkula Subject: Summary: OPTi 495 Thanks again to everyone who replied - quite many did.. And the result - unanimously - was that there are no problems with OPTi 495SX or 495SLC chipsets with or without a GUS. -- Janne Korkkula # Krogiuksentie 8B # E-mail: jk@muncca.fi Tel. +358-0-458-2260 # 00340 Helsinki # IRC Nick: JK Fax. +358-0-458-2559 # F I N L A N D # Finger/mail 4 PGP2.2 key ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 11:28:49 FWT From: tblanchot@vnet.IBM.COM Subject: TFX Has anybody succeeded in getting sound from TFX? Yet another protected mode game, so no Mega-em, and sbos gives no sound at all. I once got a digitized voice at the beginning of flight, then silence. And tfx does not seem to use 32 bit AIL drivers, so no hope from these. Thierry Blanchot. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 14:01:29 -0500 (EST) From: Scott Whitecross Subject: Ultrasound and Strike Commander Can someone please tell me how to get the Ultrasound to work with Strike Commander and what the best set - up for it is. It looks like a great game but witout the sound . . . Thank you. Scott Whitecross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 00:51:54 -0500 From: David A Denis Subject: UTL and S3M I juts started reading the FAQ and have no idea what UTL and S3M files are. Also, where is a good FTP site to get demos? Like ASM-(#93. Dave ------------------------------ End of GUS Daily Digest V10 #25 *******************************